Podcast — Siham Jibril, Generation XX: Reflecting on the End of Her Medium (5/6)

Margaux Vulliet: Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Médianes podcast, where we sit down with media founders so they can share their experiences with you. I’m Margot Vulliet, a journalist at Médianes, and you’re listening to *Chemins*. Launching a media outlet, growing it, and then bringing it to a close—and doing so on her own terms—is exactly what Siham Jibril did with Génération XX, a podcast featuring 100 episodes aired between 2017 and 2021, in which Siham interviews inspiring women. She looks back with them on their life journeys and their entrepreneurial adventures. On February 28, 2021, she posted the final and 100th episode, in which she explains the happy ending to the Génération XX podcast. In fact, it’s more than just a podcast, as there’s also a print magazine called À l’écoute and a vibrant community space. So, how do you approach the end of your media project? How do you handle it, and how do you keep your community alive? We’re discussing this with Siham Jibril. Hello, Siham.

Siham Jibril: Hello, Margaux.

Margaux Vulliet: So you’re the founder of the Génération XX podcast. This is a little different for you because you’re used to asking the questions, and this time I’m the one who’s going to ask them.

Siham Jibril: I'm delighted to answer your questions. Thank you so much for the invitation.

Margaux Vulliet: What’s it like to answer questions, to be on the other side of the microphone?

Siham Jibril: Yeah, that’s funny. It’s true that I’m not used to asking myself questions or listening to the answers anymore, but it’s nice—I’m happy to share my experience, too. So I tend to talk a lot, so you’ll have to guide me a little so I don’t ramble on with every answer.

Margaux Vulliet: You were just telling me that you feel like “Génération XX” is a long way off.

Siham Jibril: Yeah, that's true.

Margaux Vulliet: What is your relationship with Génération XX two years after it ended?

Siham Jibril: So it’s been a year and a few months because, as it turns out, I wrapped up the podcast on February 28, 2021. Today is June 8, 2022. My time with Génération XX feels like a long time ago because, as I was just telling you, a lot has happened in the meantime—I’m working on a new project, and I’m also doing some freelance work for companies I really like. Anyway, quite a lot has happened. I also went through a major period of reflection because, honestly, starting my own business and running Génération XX for four years was pretty demanding and exhausting, too. Anyway, after four years, when we finally wrapped things up—when I wrapped up the podcast—I thought to myself, “Oh yeah, really.” I was actually keeping up a pretty intense pace, so I also went through a period where, well, I had to slow down a bit, ask myself the right questions about what I wanted to do next, and so on. And on top of that, I wrapped up the podcast at a time when I was 29, and the year I turned 30—I was about to turn 30. A few months later, so now I’m 30, and—I don’t know—there was something symbolic about it. So, to answer your question, what does Génération XX represent? I feel like it represents my project in my twenties—well, from 25 to 30, anyway—and sometimes I have a little trouble… actually, so much has happened in four years that sometimes I look back on things. I think to myself, “Oh yeah, I did that, too. Oh, that’s so cool.” So on one hand, I’m doing a lot of new things, and when I look back on “Génération XX,” I think to myself, “It was so cool to have done all that—it was pretty crazy,” and that’s it.

Margaux Vulliet: Didn't you expect so much to happen?

Siham Jibril: Well, no, no. Not at all, because actually, when I launched Génération XX, it wasn’t just by chance—I came up with the idea in 2016. There weren’t any independent podcasts in France yet. Well, it was still in its infancy. At the time, I’d met Joël Renez, who launched Binge Audio, as well as Lauren Bastide and Julien Neuville, who were about to launch Nouvelles Écoutes. So it was still the very beginning. And we didn’t really know what to expect. Actually, we’d all listened to quite a few American podcasts. We could see that in the United States, the phenomenon was starting to take off and that it was pretty crazy. We figured it was going to happen in France. In any case, we wanted it to happen in France, but we didn’t yet know how it would turn out.

Margaux Vulliet: You even describe Génération XX as a pioneer, almost.

Siham Jibril: Well, in any case, it was one of the pioneers of independent podcasting in France because, obviously, podcasts already existed, but they were just replays of radio shows. So the word “podcast” already existed. But this independent aspect—where it was people who weren’t on the radio who were making podcasts… and on top of that, I wasn’t a journalist, so it was also new in the sense that people who weren’t journalists were getting into this format. So yes, I was among the pioneers, and I started it somewhat by chance—because I wanted to, because I felt there was a need for it. And I told myself, “Well, if it catches on, that’s cool, but I have absolutely no idea how it’ll turn out.”So actually, I really got swept up in it, and that—the start of the podcast, that somewhat accidental launch of a media project—well, that’s also tied to the fact that four years later, I decided to wrap up the podcast. And it was exactly as I described it—a happy ending—and it wasn’t at all to hide anything or anything like that. It’s true, I really made the choice—I chose to wrap up the podcast. I made the decision in July 2020 and wrapped it up on February 28, 2021; I took my time. It wasn’t abrupt at all; I talked about it with my listeners and the Génération XX community beforehand, and we wrapped it up together… That’s why I use the term “happy ending”—because we often get the impression that when something ends, it’s sad, like it was forced upon us. It implies that it wasn’t working, when that’s not the case at all. And in fact, lots of people have told me, “But why are you stopping? It’s so weird—I feel like it’s going really well.” I’d say, “Yes,” but really, it’s just that it fit a phase of my life—an idea I launched on a whim, by chance. I didn’t have any grand plans to turn it into something else. I mean, I did think about it, of course, at some point, but I started it thinking, “Well, we’ll see how it goes,” and eventually, I told myself “I’m happy with how it turned out; I don’t think I’m cut out to take it any further,” I mean, knowing that it was already quite a lot, because there were a hundred episodes and, as you said, a magazine—what we called a special print edition—because I worked with Baptiste and Marine from Médianes. We defined it that way because I didn’t plan to launch a magazine with multiple issues; I wanted to launch a single issue, which I did right when I announced that I was ending the podcast—so it was also because I wanted to try out a different format. I also launched a series of three videos that are like mini-documentaries, because I filmed three entrepreneurs over the course of a year. So I made three videos that were sponsored by the writing school Les Mots. That was really great, too. As you said, there was a community space—and there still is, actually—where Génération XX listeners are part of a global network of listeners. So there you go—for me, I’d shaped Génération XX into exactly what I wanted it to be. I think that if I’d launched the podcast thinking, “OK, I want to do this, that, and the other,” I might still be doing it today because it stemmed from a genuine desire, a specific vision. The difference—perhaps compared to other media founders—is that for me, it was completely by chance.

"That's why I use the term 'happy ending'—because we often get the impression that when something ends, it's sad, like something we just have to put up with. It implies that it wasn't working, when that's not the case at all."

Margaux Vulliet: You mentioned that you weren’t a journalist, but you wanted to be one. Do you think you still need a certain knack for it—and if so, what is it? Or can anyone make a podcast?

Siham Jibril: I think that to launch a podcast, a magazine, or a video channel—regardless of the format—and, by the way, just because you launch a podcast doesn’t mean you can’t launch other formats. In short, I think what’s important is passion and curiosity, because that’s what drives you—it’s what keeps you going when things get tough. It’s also that passion that makes us think and pushes us to find something new that hasn’t been done before. And curiosity—because, in fact, the media world, just like so many other industries, is evolving incredibly fast, so you always have to be on the lookout for what’s new, what’s being done, and what’s interesting. You have to be curious. You see, when I was looking for guests, I’d read lots of articles, go to lots of events, and meet lots of people. I mean, actually, you have to kind of… I was going to say “push yourself,” but for me it wasn’t a struggle because I enjoyed it—but anyway, it’s about always being on the lookout, keeping your eyes and ears wide open, and constantly seeking things out and learning more. And even for me, the advice I often gave was not to just look at what other media outlets are doing. In fact, you have to be curious about everything. I mean, for example, on Instagram, I followed restaurant accounts just as much as fashion brands—all kinds of things that inspire you—and those aren’t necessarily media outlets, actually. So I think passion and curiosity are fundamental. As for whether or not you’re a journalist, it all depends on the project. For example, the fact that I’m a journalist meant I wasn’t going to pretend to take a journalistic approach or conduct an investigation. Journalism is a profession—I wasn’t pretending to practice that profession. On the other hand, I didn’t need to be a journalist to do what I wanted to do, which was to give a voice to people who would share their stories, and so on. And then, I also learned a lot—namely, that conducting an interview isn’t just about setting up a microphone and asking a question; it’s not just a conversation like the ones you’d have in a café— that’s what I thought at first—and in fact, I recorded my first few episodes in a café, and what a huge mistake that was! Because, obviously, there’s way too much background noise that can’t be removed in post-production. So then I also learned—and maybe out in the field, I learned things that you can perhaps learn in the same way when you’re a journalist and you go out into the field and hone your skills—but anyway, I think that, at least for what I wanted to do, I didn’t need to be a journalist. Of course, if I’d wanted to start a magazine like *Le Monde*, well, maybe I still would’ve had to be a journalist—or at least, maybe not, because again, perhaps the role I would’ve had… well, maybe not for *Le Monde*, but anyway, for my magazine, *À l’écoute*, for example, my role was to be the editor-in-chief, and then I hired journalists. Anyway, there were two formats: there were guests who wrote essays, and then there were journalists who wrote articles. And when it came to writing articles, well, I hired real journalists because I’m not a journalist myself—I didn’t necessarily want to write, but I really enjoyed that role of conductor, of editor-in-chief. You see, I’m already starting to ramble and give very long answers.

Margaux Vulliet: No, but that’s actually interesting, and I’ll come back to it later—but maybe we should just clarify things for those who aren’t familiar with the topic, especially the focus of this special issue. Would you like to talk about it?

Siham Jibril: Yes, so the idea behind this special issue was that I really wanted to create a print format because podcasts are great, but they’re virtual, and I wanted people to have a physical item in their homes. And actually, I’d done a collaboration with the fashion brand Patine, and we’d released two editions of a T-shirt. It was really cool, but I also wanted to have a print publication. I wasn’t thinking I was going to launch a magazine with multiple issues. But there you go, I really liked the idea of a special print edition. Some people do special episodes for their podcasts, and for me, it was like a special episode of the podcast—but in print. And actually, at some point—in 2019, if I’m not mistaken— I worked with an agency called Tu seras beau, with Clémentine and Fleur, to revamp Génération XX’s visual identity. And actually, Fleur and Clémentine’s approach is that before we even start talking about color, visual identity, and so on, we first need to go back to basics: who is Génération XX, what do you want to do? What do you want to say, and so on? And honestly, I loved working with them; it was—and I recommend it to anyone who’s in the process of revamping their media platform, or even those just starting out who have some questions. It’s incredibly interesting to have guidance on this because, really, it’s an outside perspective, and often we have the answers deep down inside, but it’s not always easy to put them into words ourselves—and that’s exactly the work I was doing with Fleur. She’d ask me questions—it was almost like a therapy session I was having with her—and I’d tell her what Génération XX was all about. And she actually helped me put down on paper the three values that represent Génération XX, which are: intuition, empathy, and curiosity. 

"The idea behind this special issue is that I really wanted to create a print edition because podcasts are great, but they're virtual, and I wanted people to have a physical item in their homes."

Margaux Vulliet: Had you already defined those three words when Génération XX was launched?

Siham Jibril: No, no, not at all, not at all. It came about in 2019 when I did that project with Fleur and Clémentine, but actually it was already there—it just needed to be put into words. But no, I didn’t have them at all at the beginning. And actually, as I was reworking those words, I realized that what connects them is the act of listening, because intuition is about listening to yourself—to what you want, to who you are, and so on. Empathy is listening to others, understanding their stories, and being able—for a moment—to put yourself in their shoes to understand how they see the world and how they feel about things. And then curiosity—as I was telling you earlier—is about being attentive to the world, observing everything that’s happening, and keeping an eye out for new things. People don’t see it, but I’m making a gesture with my hands… it’s really about sensing the world, about paying attention. You’ll get a feel for the spirit of the times—that’s what it means to be attuned to the world, and that’s what curiosity is. So when it came time to put together this special episode, I thought to myself, “Well, actually, the title is a no-brainer—it’s *Attuned*,” and there were three parts: listening to yourself, listening to others, listening to the world. Then I selected 10 guests—10 former podcast guests— 5 journalists, and I asked them, “What does ‘listening to yourself,’ ‘listening to others,’ and ‘listening to the world’ inspire in you? Which section would you like to contribute to? What would you like to write about?” ” I also had some ideas for topics I wanted to cover. I wanted it to be very broad, but everything fit within this theme of listening—and so those three values as well: intuition, empathy, and curiosity.

Margaux Vulliet: Those three words are almost essential for anyone who wants to start a business—you have to get a feel for things, you have to see… Do you view a media project like any other project? Or are there very specific things you noticed when you launched the podcast that you haven’t seen elsewhere in your other projects—either before or after Génération XX?

Siham Jibril: That’s a good question. I’m currently putting together a new project that isn’t a podcast, but I’m actually finding that the same important elements are there as when I launched the podcast. It’s what you were saying just now—there’s this intuition. When you start a project, it’s about something you feel deep down. You sense something, you have a desire, you have something to say, something to show. You feel like something’s missing somewhere. You want to fill that gap with your project. So that was definitely the case with the podcast. I launched Génération XX because I was at a point where I’d been offered the chance to start a company, and I thought to myself, “Why not?” But I had absolutely no idea, because at the time I was 24 or 25—I kept asking myself, “What am I going to do? Start a company?” I was a bit lost, and actually, listening to American podcasts where people talked about their journeys, it helped me enormously because, for one thing, it showed me that a professional—or even personal—journey isn’t a straight, predetermined path that you can map out as soon as you’re 20 and don’t know where you want to go. But other things happen along the way—there are fork in the road, moments of doubt, unexpected twists, and desires that emerge later on. Anyway, all of that has already helped me put things into perspective and tell myself, “Actually, it’s OK not to know exactly what you want to do.” The important thing is to try—to follow your intuition a little, to give things a shot, to see what you like, to adjust as you go, and so on. And then, on the subject of entrepreneurship itself, in several podcasts, I’d heard that the key thing when partnering on a project is to make sure you share the same vision—that you’re aligned not only on the business vision but also on fairly personal matters, and so on. And then I realized at the time that this wasn’t the case with the person I might have partnered with, and that’s why, at that moment, luckily I didn’t go into partnership because I listened to all these stories, and that made me ask myself the right questions. That’s really what the podcasts did for me: I asked myself the right questions and thought to myself, “Well, this really needs to exist in French—it would help so many people. Why doesn’t it exist in French? There are so many fascinating people to interview.” I decided to interview women who are entrepreneurs. And I was really taking the word “entrepreneur” in the broadest sense—meaning anyone who launches a project, whether it’s a nonprofit, cultural, or business venture—and I wanted them to be women because in 2016, I’d been to quite a few conferences where female entrepreneurs were speaking, and I found that every time, the questions they were asked were really clichéd, or else they were very black-and-white. It was either “oh my gosh, what a huge success story”—this kind of idealized, model-woman image, something a bit too perfect, which actually makes everyone feel insecure and think, “But I’ll never be that person”—or else the focus was solely on the difficulties of being a woman, the problems, and so on. And finally, I thought to myself, maybe there’s a happy medium where we can talk about successes and failures, and talk about the highs, the lows, the moments when you feel on top of the world, and the moments of doubt—you know, just life, really. So that’s why I then chose to shine a light on women, because I felt there was a new way to ask them questions and tell their stories—without ever confining them to the fact that they’re women. No more asking questions like, “As a woman, what’s it like?”—not at all. I let them define themselves. So that’s the whole digression, just to say that yes, it always starts with an intuition, a desire; you sense that something is missing, and that’s what you want to do. And I see that same thing today in my current project—the one I’m putting together, which isn’t a podcast—but it’s driven by that same intuition, and then you have to approach things with empathy. I think that’s incredibly important. No matter what project you’re launching—because, in fact, often, no matter what the project is, whether it’s a media venture, buying a fashion brand, a restaurant, and so on—at some point, you have to put yourself in the shoes of the person or people you want to reach. You have to say, “OK, I sense there’s this need”—that’s the intuitive part—but what about the people on the other end? What do they want? How do they feel? What’s already being offered to them? What new thing do you need to offer them? So it’s super important to put yourself in other people’s shoes as well as your own—whether it’s your customers or your community, it doesn’t matter. And then there’s that curiosity thing I was telling you about—if you’re not curious, you’ll just do what everyone else is already doing, and it won’t be anything new. So, you see, these three values—they were fundamental in the podcast, and I think they’re fundamental when you’re launching a media outlet, but ultimately, when you’re launching just about any project, there are surely specific nuances to the media itself. In any case, those are the three values—I think they can be applied across the board.

Margaux Vulliet: When you’re launching a media outlet, there’s the technical side of things, as you mentioned at the beginning—you have to get a handle on things—but other than that, yes.

Siham Jibril: Exactly, that’s it. And when it comes to the media, there’s something unique about it because we can talk about the news industry, but actually, I find that—as you can see— I’ve interviewed quite a few entrepreneurs on my podcast—people launching projects in all sorts of different fields—but the thing is, when you launch a project, it’s always a reflection of the times; it says something about society, the way we do things, it says something about our values. And besides, there are plenty of projects today that, at their core, aren’t media outlets. But ultimately, they end up having to almost create a media outlet alongside their business—or at least use social media, for example, as a media platform because they need to convey values, messages, and so on. So I don’t know—is everything media in the end? I don’t know. We ourselves are sort of a media outlet because when we express ourselves, when we have things to say, when we have political views… Well, you get the idea. Yeah, there are probably specific aspects of media that I’m not thinking of right now, but in any case, just from the entrepreneurial side of things. I think it’s a project that—well, there are other projects that aren’t media outlets but can have the same values, the same core elements, you know.

Margaux Vulliet: You said you’d thought about the ending of *Génération XX* about six months earlier. In the final episode, number 100, I noticed some lines that really stuck with me, where you say, “Where do we start to end?” I chose the beginning, and I choose the ending. Not all endings have to be unhappy and abrupt.” It almost sounds like you had a relationship with *Génération XX* that was almost like a romantic one, because you find yourself thinking, well, ultimately… anyway, all that to say, how did you envision that ending during those last six months when you knew you were going to wrap it up?

Siham Jibril: It brings us back to what we’ve been talking about this whole time—that whole intuition thing, really. In the same way, I chose the launch date for Génération XX; it was something… very intuitive. I just thought to myself, “I have to launch it.” I didn’t overthink it—that was it. In the same way, at a certain point, I felt it was time to wrap it up, and in fact, I wrapped it up the year I turned 30 because I like symbols… I was at about 80 episodes and I knew the 100th one was coming up, and I thought to myself, “Well, 100 episodes is symbolic—what do I do after that?” I thought to myself, “But I’m not going to do 110 episodes—I’ll stop after 110.” It’s lame to stop at 110. So I thought, “Well, that means I’ll go for another 100 and stop at 200, or maybe I’ll do 1,000”—but honestly, I don’t know. there was something really instinctive about it—I thought to myself, “100 is the right time; it’s been four years, I’m turning 30, and I have other things I want to do too.” I think I also wanted to wrap it up before I got tired of it. I didn’t want to get tired of it, actually. Exactly—I didn’t want to wake up one day and say to myself, “Oh, I’m sick of this,” or have someone tell me, “Oh, okay, we get it, Generation XX,” I didn’t want to do too many interviews—I just didn’t want to. I remember talking about it once with someone who said to me, “Yeah, but maybe that moment wouldn’t have come,” but then again, I know myself, I know I have so many desires—there are so many things I want to do in my life—so I also knew that moment would have come eventually. And so I decided to get ahead of it, telling myself that as long as I still think it’s cool, I’d rather wrap it up now. And there you go—there was this symbolic thing about the 100th episode of the year I turned 30. At the time, I wanted to wrap it up exactly on February 1, 2021, so it would be exactly four years, but I didn’t manage it because, actually, it took forever to write that last episode since I knew it wasn’t going to be an interview. Some people told me, “Oh, but couldn’t it be an interview with you?” but I definitely didn’t want to end with an interview with myself. I really wanted to end with a kind of conclusion—but an open-ended one, not a full stop— it’s always something a little open-ended, and actually, if… if—I say “if” because I’m still superstitious—but I’m going to launch this new project, and in fact, in the special issue, there’s already a clue about the project I’m launching, already a bridge to what comes next. Yes, it’s something that’s coming to a close, but it’s an opening onto what’s next. I really like this way of looking at things, and that’s kind of what I mean—it’s not an end, and that’s not a bad thing. I mean, it’s not a full stop, and we’re starting fresh. You see, otherwise I wouldn’t have come here to talk about *Génération XX*. Today, when I talk about it, I’m really happy with what I’ve done. I look back on those years and think to myself, “It’s crazy, and it brought me to where I am today.” ” I mean, really, I have a very peaceful relationship with Génération XX—it’s not like a romantic relationship where things just come to a complete halt; it’s more like a phase of my life, just the way my studies were a phase of my life. I don’t want to live in the past, telling myself, “Ah, things were better before.” One chapter has closed, but there are plenty of new things coming up in terms of projects, and that’s what I wanted to say in this final episode. But it’s been a long process, and that’s why I started by saying, “Where do we start in order to wrap things up?” because I still have a bit of a hard time being—as I’ve shown—concise, and I told myself, “Well, I need to do an episode to wrap things up; I need to take stock a bit.” And actually, it felt overwhelming. I thought to myself, “How am I going to say in ten minutes everything I’ve learned, seen, and felt over the past four years?” I kept thinking, “I’ll never be able to say all that in ten minutes—I’d have to give a lecture, or a series of lectures, to talk about all of this.” But I pushed myself—I told myself, “No, I have to make this work”—and so it took me a month and a half to write this episode, and as a result, it came out on February 28th. In a way, I thought that was cool. I thought to myself, it’s cool to have started on February 1st and finished before the end of the month.

Margaux Vulliet: How did you feel when we finished recording episode 100? Satisfied? Relieved?

Siham Jibril: Yeah, I was super happy to have written that episode, and I was super happy when it was over—that I’d managed to put those words down—and, I haven’t listened to the 100th episode again recently, but I have listened to it before, and I still really resonate with what I said, so, I had a sense of satisfaction—I was actually happy with how it wrapped up—and again, well, I’d released the special episode, which did well, and by then, with Marine and Baptiste’s help, we’d set up the online community. Anyway, I had a sense of satisfaction, but not in the sense of thinking, “Oh, I’m so great,” but just in the sense of thinking, “Well, I’m happy with a job well done.” If I’m not mistaken, at the end of the 100th episode, I read a passage by Camus—I can’t quote it exactly, but he writes, “I had in my heart the feeling of a man who had done his job well.” Actually, that’s exactly how I felt, and you see, I’m smiling—it feels genuine because it was really, really enjoyable. I was thinking to myself, well, I’m happy. It’s the right conclusion. It’s like when you finish a book and you’re happy—you tell yourself, “Well, that was cool; I had a good time.” Yeah, that’s really how I felt.

Margaux Vulliet: Were you happy to have shared things, because you yourself had discovered something through American podcasts that didn’t exist in France—so did you share something through your podcast? 

Siham Jibril: I didn’t really say things quite like that, actually. Each time, I was really lucky because the podcast took off pretty quickly because… I say “lucky” because, actually, timing did play a role, but again, the timing worked out because I had a gut feeling about it and because I was paying close attention to what was happening in the U.S.—I thought to myself, “I think this is going to catch on in France.” Anyway, the timing worked out well, so the podcast took off pretty quickly, and I’m really grateful to everyone who took the time to write to me after every episode to tell me it helped them a lot—I loved that. It was a time in my life when, well, I was feeling those kinds of things, and I felt less alone, and so on. Actually, it’s that sense of connection—I felt it throughout those four years. Every time, I sensed that people were happy to listen and that it meant something to them. So, what I’d managed to get out of American podcasts, I felt I’d passed on as well, episode after episode. For the 100th episode, I felt something more personal and perhaps more connected to the entrepreneurial journey itself. So it’s just the satisfaction of having worked on a project for four years and being happy with how I’d carried it out. At one point, I asked myself questions about how to grow it, and so on. And actually, there were a thousand ways to grow Génération XX. I could have done other things—I could have done plenty of things—but there were some things where I told myself, “Well, that’s not really me.” I could very well have developed Génération XX, done this, done that, but that’s not me. It doesn’t feel right to me; I don’t want to do it; in the same way, when it came to monetization, there were partnerships I could have pursued, but I didn’t want to because Génération XX was, at its core, a fairly personal project, and I didn’t want it to suddenly become just a business. It wasn’t always easy to make decisions because there was so much of me in it, and mixing the personal with business considerations—because, of course, to keep a free media outlet afloat, there aren’t exactly 10,000 ways to do it: it comes down to monetization through advertisers, and at the same time, you have to be selective about which advertisers you work with. It was out of the question to have advertisers who weren’t aligned with the values I wanted to convey through the podcast, so sometimes I still had quite a few… little mental knots—I say “a few,” but I’ve had a lot of them over the past four years, I’m not going to lie to you. And actually, I think all of that played a part, too. Actually, at one point I told myself it was also the right time to wrap things up because the changes I’m seeing aren’t 100% aligned with who I am, who I want to be, and what I want to do with this podcast. So, in fact, that sense of satisfaction also came from telling myself that I didn’t push this project just for the sake of it—just to turn it into a big business—but simply to get people to listen. So, basically, I was happy to have stayed true to who I am, what I want to do, and who I want to be—so that was also part of the satisfaction of the 100th episode; it was something personal and tied to my entrepreneurial journey.

“At one point, I told myself, ‘This is also the right time to wrap things up because the changes I’m seeing aren’t 100% in line with who I am and who I want to be.’”

Margaux Vulliet: Génération XX is still going strong thanks to the community, and as you yourself said, it’s “take the reins, all of you listeners, and keep Génération XX alive.” I mentioned this in the intro—it’s a large online community where everyone can connect with one another. Can you start by explaining the community project itself and how this community will continue to thrive after the 100th episode?

Siham Jibril : Le projet de la communauté, c’était de se dire il y a plein de gens qui écoutent Génération XX dans le monde entier. Bon, tous les épisodes sont en français, donc c’est soit des gens qui sont dans des pays francophones, soit des gens qui parlent français dans d’autres pays, aux États-Unis, en Australie. Et je me suis dit mais tous ces gens, s’ils écoutent Génération XX, qu’ils aiment le podcast, etc., ça veut dire qu’ils ont des choses en commun. C’est peut-être pas un métier, c’est peut-être pas un âge, c’est peut-être pas un genre, c’est peut-être pas une passion, mais c’est une une façon d’appréhender les choses qui leur plaisent. Parce que moi, ce qui m’intéresse, dans le podcast, c’était la nuance, c’était la complexité. C’était pas de dire “Ah, unetelle, c’est une success story, et l’autre c’est un échec”. Je posais beaucoup la question : “C’est quoi le succès pour toi ? C’est quoi un échec ?” Et d’ailleurs, c’est jamais aussi binaire que ça, il y a plein d’autres choses. C’est ça qui m’intéresse, et comme je te disais, il y avait donc ces trois valeurs dont on a parlé. Je me suis dit ces gens qui écoutent et qui aiment vraiment tout ce qui s’y dit et plus la façon dont c’est dit, les questions que je pose, etc., bah c’est qu’ils ont un set de valeurs en commun. Je me suis dis “C’est trop bête, il faut que ces gens se parlent et comment on fait ?” et donc l’idée assez simple de départ, c’était de se dire il faudrait qu’il y ait un annuaire où les gens qui ont envie s’inscrivent et puissent avoir accès aux fiches, aux contacts des autres personnes qui se sont elles aussi dit « moi aussi j’ai envie de faire parler de cette communauté, moi aussi j’ai des valeurs en commun, etc. » Et donc ce qu’on a construit avec Marine et Baptiste de Médianes, ce qu’ils m’ont aidé à faire, c’est une page sur le site Internet de Génération XX sur laquelle on entre avec un mot de passe, parce que du coup l’accès à la communauté c’était payant et c’était un accès pour toute la vie. C’est pas un truc récurrent, c’est pas un abonnement qu’on renouvelle. Et donc c’est une page sur laquelle chaque personne qui fait partie de la communauté a sa fiche avec son nom, son prénom, la ville, une petite phrase, et il y a la possibilité de mettre un paragraphe sur soi parce que je voulais pas que ce soit juste un profil LinkedIn. L’idée, c’était que les gens puissent parler un peu d’eux, le lien si les gens ont envie de partager vers leur Instagram ou vers leur compte LinkedIn. Chacun a sa fiche, et donc quand on se connecte sur la communauté Génération XX, on a accès à tous ces gens et en fait, moi je me disais, imagine un jour, je sais pas, tu vas à New York, tu connais personne. Tu peux aller sur l’annuaire et tu vois s’il y a des gens, tu peux les contacter et vous pouvez prendre un café. Et a priori, vous avez déjà quelque chose en commun, donc ça fait une première chose dont vous pouvez parler. Bien sûr je dis pas qu’on va parler de Générations XX, mais en fait ça crée du lien quoi. Et je me disais, si les gens peuvent s’entraider à travers cette communauté, ce serait génial. Ou même par exemple, sur la communauté, je sais qu’il y a plusieurs personnes qui sont dans le monde du spectacle, alors ça peut être “tiens, toi t’es scénariste, je cherche justement quelqu’un pour m’accompagner sur l’écriture d’un court-métrage. Est-ce qu’on pourrait se parler ?”. Enfin voilà, l’idée, en fait, c’était vraiment de créer un réseau parce qu’on dit toujours que c’est difficile d’avoir du réseau, etc. Je me suis dit qu’on pouvait créer un réseau à partir de toutes celles et ceux qui ont envie de faire partie de cette communauté Génération XX, qui se sont retrouvés dans les valeurs, donc faisons-le. Donc la communauté c’est ça. Il y a aussi un espace où on peut poster une annonce, parce que parfois on n’a pas forcément une personne à contacter en particulier, mais on a juste une annonce à faire passer et donc j’imaginais ça vraiment comme les tableaux à l’ancienne, en liège là, où on peut passer une petite annonce. Ce que j’avais commencé à faire au début c’était une newsletter mensuelle dans laquelle je mettais les annonces qui ont été postées dans le mois, et je mettais aussi en avant trois personnes de la communauté, trois profils. Et puis au début, il y avait aussi des personnes qui ont proposé d’organiser des événements. Par exemple, il y a Maude qui habite à Londres et qui est prof de yoga, qui a proposé un cours de yoga gratuit à la communauté, donc c’était hyper chouette. Et la difficulté, pour être honnête, c’est qu’en fait moi effectivement ce que j’avais dit, c’était bah cette communauté, c’est vous, à vous de la porter, mais en fait c’est pas si simple de laisser les gens s’approprier un outil, c’est pour ça qu’au début il y avait cette newsletter, pour animer le truc. Sauf que j’ai récemment j’ai pas envoyé de nouvelles newsletters et c’est dans ma To-do depuis 1 000 ans de me dire « il faut que j’en envoie une pour aussi voir si peut être dans la communauté il n’y a pas quelqu’un qui a envie de s’en occuper ». Un jour, on a fait un un Zoom, l’été dernier, avec quelques personnes de la communauté pour dire “comment est-ce qu’on pourrait faire évoluer cette communauté ? Est-ce que ça doit devenir une association par exemple ? Et qu’est-ce qu’on peut en faire ?” Enfin voilà, en fait, cette communauté, c’est quelque chose qui est du… désolée pour l’anglicisme mais du work in progress. Moi je l’ai imaginé à la base comme un annuaire, mais voilà peut-être que ça va devenir autre chose, peut être qu’ il y a quelqu’un dans la communauté qui va avoir envie de le développer. Voilà, je sais pas encore ce que ça va devenir parce que le but c’était surtout de pas avoir quelque chose de descendant, c’est pour ça qu’au début moi j’ai envoyé la newsletter et après je me suis dit « En fait on retombe dans quelque chose où c’est moi qui doit faire en sorte que les gens se parlent entre eux”, alors que moi j’ai vraiment imaginé cet annuaire en me disant “J’espère que dans cinq ans il sera encore là, dans 10 ans il sera encore là”, quelque chose que les gens peuvent utiliser quand ils en ont besoin parce que peut-être que là ils en ont pas besoin et peut-être que voilà dans trois ans, un jour, ils iront à Berlin et « je connais personne à Berlin, bah tiens, il y a la communauté Génération XX ». Et comme je te disais, le coût d’entrée c’est un one shot, tu payes une fois pour toute la vie, c’est pas hyper engageant derrière, donc sa vocation va peut-être évoluer. Peut-être que quelqu’un, la communauté aura envie de continuer à le faire évoluer. Je sais pas ce que ça va donner mais c’était le but aussi à la base pour moi, je me disais pas “Ah tiens, ça c’est une nouvelle activité, maintenant j’ai clôturé le podcast et je vais m’occuper de la communauté” : pas du tout, et d’ailleurs j’ai été assez claire là-dessus dès le départ. J’ai tout de suite dit « voilà la communauté, c’est un espace qui existe en ligne, c’est pour vous, si vous avez envie de rester en contact ou de créer plus tard des contacts, mais moi j’ai pas vocation à l’animer mais je suis pas du tout opposée au contraire, je suis très ouverte à des propositions pour la développer en dehors, en dehors de moi ». Moi, j’étais très contente de me dire je passe le relai, le flambeau.

Margaux Vulliet: Maybe someone will take over *Génération XX* Season 2…

Siham Jibril: I don’t think so, because it would still feel less authentic. And above all, if someone wanted to take it on, I’d want to tell them, “Create your own thing, develop your own style and identity—you don’t need to fit into the one I’ve created.” But in any case, yes, regarding the community—if there are people from the community listening to this podcast—I’m very open to hearing how we could help it grow, and I’d be more than happy to do so.

Margaux Vulliet: Do you still have at least a little bit of a connection with certain people in your community?

Siham Jibril: Yeah, I get messages. Just now, for example, I got a really nice message from a listener who was visiting Paris, and she said, “I’m visiting Paris—would you like to grab a coffee?” Well, it turns out I’m not here on the day she’s in town, but that’s so nice—I still get to see several of my guests regularly. On Instagram, sometimes editors write to me saying, “Oh, it’s been a while since we’ve seen you on the account,” because the Génération XX Instagram account still exists, but I haven’t posted in ages. I’m wondering, for my future project, whether or not I should take that account back. Anyway, we’ll see. But yeah, I still have connections, and it’s so great. In fact, a reader I’d met when I hosted an event in New York asked me if we could grab a coffee. I mean, it’s just so cool. It really touches me every time, yeah.

Margaux Vulliet: And the community you’ve built with Génération XX—can it serve as a bridge to your future projects?

Siham Jibril: Well, absolutely, because the project I’m working on right now is obviously connected to everything I’ve learned—and everything I’ve felt, too—during these four years with Génération XX. As I told you, there’s already a hint of it in the spin-off, and I think that everyone who’s part of the Génération XX community—whoever they may be, whether it’s the online community or the broader community—those who’ve listened to me—I think, in principle, if they share all the values we’ve talked about, they’ll be interested in this new project. There’s clearly a connection.

Margaux Vulliet: Can you give us a few hints?

Siham Jibril: Yes, what I can tell you is that it’s all connected—it’s a project for everyone who wants to keep learning throughout their lives. And not just to learn things that are useful for work, but to learn how to nurture their curiosity, to discover the world, and to understand it as well. It’s a project for anyone who wants all of that.

Margaux Vulliet: And you approach it differently than the podcast—I imagine you've learned a lot?

Siham Jibril: I’ve learned a lot. In any case, there are things guests have said that stick with me, and then there’s my own experience over the past four years—I started a business and everything, so I was an entrepreneur, and I made mistakes, and so on. So all of that is obviously ingrained in me, and yes, as a result, some things are easier. But actually, the project I’m setting up now involves things I’ve never done before—a lot of it is new—and now there are two of us…

Margaux Vulliet: Yeah, this time you're teaming up.

Siham Jibril: Yeah, we’re not officially partners yet, but it won’t be long. So it’s different. I’m also learning to work as a duo. It’s a different dynamic than working alone. There are things that are very different from what I did with Génération XX and that are completely new to me. Right now, I’m wide-eyed because I know everything that’s ahead of me—everything that’s ahead of us: there’s a lot going on, but yes, of course, there are things I’ve learned that are going to be very useful to me, so that’s still great.

Margaux Vulliet : Écoute, on regardera ça de très près.

Siham Jibril : Merci beaucoup.

Margaux Vulliet : Merci beaucoup Siham d’avoir pris le temps de répondre à mes questions.

Siham Jibril :  Avec grand plaisir, Merci beaucoup pour tes questions et à très vite.

Margaux Vulliet : Merci à vous, chers auditeurs et auditrices. Vous pouvez retrouver les autres épisodes de Chemins sur toutes les plateformes d’écoute. Surtout, prenez soin de vous et de vos médias.